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»There are other aftermarket pipes available, why should I get Mild 2WILD TrombonesTM?

  Here's a list of the features these pipes have (no other pipes have ALL of these):

• Crossover option.  Makes more torque and horsepower than systems without.    Only other crossover pipes for Valk - TBR cannister system, now out of production.
   
• Instant rider-customizableWILD sound in seconds with the patented TromBones, without tools, or back to mild, or dial it down to a rumbly stock volume with the Silencers (popular for trips, and with the S.O. on the back seat) - drown out  the Harleys then hit the slab - no headaches, only tool needed 8mm wrench for the Silencers.
   
• FIVE inch stacks available, with mitered, straight or turned outlets
   
• Guaranteed to bolt on same as stock - no changes to mount points from stock pipes, and structural integrity retained - no new flex point like some systems where the stub of the muffler can is slipped into the end of a truck stack - the stack is slipped over the entire muffler can (minus the length of the silencers)
   
• Exhaust components used - no pipe-thread joints to sieze, no need for messy anti-sieze compound smeared in your saddlebags.
   
• No rejetting needed¹.  Bolt them on and go for a ride.
   
• Double-wall chrome stock headers which shine as chrome and don't blue or discolor if not abused (e.g. leave the choke on or "blow the cobwebs out" in the garage instead of winterizing)
   
• Glasspacks which have OUTSTANDING sound.
   
• Deliver several extra horses with a flat streetable torque curve thanks to Honda-engineered unequal-length headers, my crossover system, the introduction of scavenging, and the recovery of a LOT of friction waste as the exhaust is no longer pushed through restrictive baffles.
   
• Priced competitively - and you can buy as much as fits your taste and your wallet - it's an exhaust "system".
   
• Reasonable delivery times - most orders ship in a week - and we're talking about pipes made to order.  Backlog is running about 2-3 orders, spring '05
   
• Can build with my cores or yours - using mine saves you downtime, using yours saves you money. And I can buy your cores back if you use mine, if they are in excellent condition.
   
• Can look stock, or look custom with quad-chrome truck stacks - any custom length you like 21.5" - 48" assuming constraints of your options.
   
• Easily sourced covers if you damage them ("stock" system uses stock Honda covers and saves $).
   
• Easily (on the bike) & cheaply replaced glasspacks if you keep it long enough to wear them out.
   
• Top Quality parts - stainless headers (internal), stainless "frame", aluminized tubing, stainless welds, no heavy galvanized water pipe parts.
   
• and lastly - outstanding reputation.  I have built over 700 systems since '98.  In that volume of sales, I have had to handle customer concerns a handful of times.  By the time we were done I made sure the customers signed off that they were happy with the product and customer service.     That works out to over 99% satisfaction.  By the way, my system is well known and popular - adds value to your bike.
  
   

»My wife likes it quiet.  How can I make the glasspacks even quieter, besides removing the bones?

You can order the new for '02 Silencers_tm with your packs and have the problem solved.  Or you can do the following (but why bother):

Moosfa has experimented with making glasspacks even quieter.  Here's his post:
 

 Posted By: Moosfa <moosfa@valkyrieriders.com>
 Date: 11/18/2001 at 08:19:38

                                                       
 I have done a lot of experiments with stock exhaust, too many to count!
 My suggestions:

1. Get muffler wrap from JCW, galvanized screen (about 1/4" squares from hardware store),  wire to tie up screen to the cylinder shape that you need.
Form a cylinder out of screen to desired length and dia., probably about diameter size of
trombone. Wrap with 2 layers of muffler wrap, wrap again with screen, check fit w/ ID of
truck stack. You will want it TIGHT. This will tone it down except when getting on it.  

2. JCW and other sources (J&P cycles?) sell baffles that could be attached, then welded onto the trombone. Different lengths and dia. are possible. Could also be used with #1.

3. I made baffles that slipped into the glasspak, like the trombones, and diverted the sound into the glasspak. Need to buy the appropriate OD pipe to fit into the glasspak. You'll have to make a way to attach them to the glasspak also. This method is very labor intensive. Drilled holes and used a cutoff grinder to make the baffle tab. The hole was at the apex of the triangle of the baffle and cuts formed the sides of the triangle. The tab was then bent inward into the pipe. The apex of the tab was towards the inlet. Tabs could be bent to any desired angle to adjust baffle-ing. I would hate to cut up the Mark T trombones doing this until I were certain it was what I wanted! Still had nice idle rumble, cut down on overall sound. Can also  be used with #1.

Hope this gives you some ideas on how to play with the sound. Your tastes may vary, you  gotta experiment. I love the sound of the glasspaks, especially at idle, sounds like the hot  car I never had as a youth! Sounds great above 3K rpm when getting on it.  I prefer running shorty "trombones" in my glasspak mod. Nice idle sound, not too loud when cruising unless on a hill or getting on it. Longer "trombones" make the pitch higher and less  obtrusive, but you lose the nice burble of the glasspaks at idle.
Good luck! 

»I've heard there may be "droning" with glasspacks.  What's up with that?

There have been several reports of droning while wearing certain full-face helmets. Specifically the Shoei RF-800 seems to resonate at the same frequency as the Valk's exhaust note with most aftermarket pipes, and pipe mods.  This helmet has ear cutouts, apparently for "comfort" or to facilitate the addition of earphones.  I have not yet heard of a mod to the helmet to eliminate it - like adding sound deadening material in the ear cutout area.

Sixist posted on the VRCC General Board, on 4/27/01:

I replied to a post on the Tech board the other day that I'd found the sound from my Mark-T glasspacks, which  was quite loud and annoying, was dramatically reduced when I wore my half helmet.

I've done a small bit of experimenting and would like to share the results.

With my Shoei RF-800 full face, the droning at highway speeds was annoying, and after a couple of hours, my ears were ringing. This was true when riding either with the face shield up or down. I was embarrassed riding through residential neighborhoods, thinking I was making so much noise.

When spring came, I put on my half-helmet, which as everyone knows lets you hear more engine noise, etc., and suddenly, my pipes sounded mild. I installed the trombones (full length) and still, the pipes sounded mild compared to what they'd been with the full face. Now, I only consider the pipes to be "Loud" when you grab a handful of throttle. Mild acceleration is very mellow.

Today, I found an old KBC full face helmet I'd forgotten I had, and rode to work. Very mild noise, same as with the half helmet.

Conclusions: Only some full face helmets amplify the noise from the pipes. It could conceivably be a problem with 3/4 helmets, since the face shield position did not affect the noise. Further, it may be that the thicker shell, el-cheapo helmets are less prone to resonance with the pipes and thereby amplifying the noise. It may also be that different sizes of the same brand of helmet produce different results as far as perceived noise (I'm going to try to get my wife to test this thesis using her smaller Shoei full face and her half helmet, but first I have to pry her butt off her HD Deuce and get it on the Valk).

So, if noise from your pipes is bothering you, it isn't the pipes, it's your helmet.

Jim Caldwell, Owings, MD

On the subject of helmet droning, Master Blaster said:

The new HJC Syncro is pretty good, and it comes with extra pads to fill the ear cavity. Have used on a couple of longies, and was comfortable all day. Good in the rain also. I run 12 in glasspacks and straights out of 36 in  slashdown stacks...TB 

 

»Do Mild2W ILD Trombones TM affect the tune of the bike?

  No, they do not change the engine tune compared to the glasspacks without them.  The slides have no effect on back pressure and therefore, no effect on the engine's tune.  They can be in or out, and cut to any length - the engine never knows they are there.  Here's Joe Norris' dyno run showing HP and Torque with bones in & out.

»Do the glasspacks affect the tune of the bike?

Yes they may, but not much.  They reduce back pressure, and provide exhaust scavenging which results in more ponies delivered.  They will also lean the bike slightly.  Almost all report no mixture adjustments were necessary. I have K&N without prefilter, glasspacks, and ported the intakes, run at mile high elevation, and my tune is spot on with no carb adjustment.  I recommend you monitor your plugs and adjust mixture if they indicate a lean condition.  The easiest way to adjust the mixture is to shim the carbs - costs a couple bucks and takes an hour if you've never done it before.  See Chet's Valkyrie Page for specific instructions.

»My stock pipes are turning gold and blue.  Wha's hapnin?

This seems to happen in snow country, in the winter.  Apparently some riders are "blowing out the cobwebs" by firing up Brünhilda and letting her run in the garage for 20 minutes or so at a time, several times during the winter, instead of winterizing the bike.  Probably one of the worst things you can do.  Not only does this leave condensation on the innards of the plumbing, but the pipes can get quite hot running for extended periods without wind blowing over them.  If you just HAVE to ride vicariously in the winter, go to Blockbuster and rent a used motorcycle movie.    Or you can dump the midwinter blues with chromatherapy - putting some sparkles on Black Beauty always makes me feel better.

The other preventable cause for blued stock pipes is leaving the choke on too long.  Only use it long enough so she will stay running - 30 seconds is more than enough.

If your pipes are bluing and you're not doing either of the above, you have a tuning problem.  Take a look at your plugs, and compare them to this:

More about reading plugs at http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/shims.html

Or take Brünhilda down to your Honda garage and have them check the tune.

» Can I use any tips with Trombones?

Yes, all of the tips I know of for the stock pipes on the Standard and Tourer Valkyries will still fit with the Trombones installed.  But I recommend using open ended tips, either straight or slightly curved, so the Trombone slides can be inserted without removing the tips.  The stock tips work, and so do slash cuts and mild turndowns/turnouts.  Honda triple tips must be removed to insert/remove the slides.  I don't know of any aftermarket tips for the Interstate, yet.  For Interstates, I mount the bone latches sideways to allow more clearance for the narrow slot, and the outlet needs to be curved out a quarter inch - send me your tips and I'll do it for you.

»Just how loud are the glasspacks without the Mild2 WILD Trombone TM slides inserted?

Comparable in volume but deeper in tone to other 6 into 2 exhausts like Jardines and Pro-Dynos.  Quieter and much deeper than the 6 into 6 exhausts.  Louder than the "piggieplasty" and "bafflectomy" by perhaps 30% (not measured, I'm guessing)  You can affect the sound delivery by the tips you use - the stock tips are the quietest, megaphone-like tips are loudest.  The bags and windshield also affect the sound you hear.  Of course, they don't affect the sound bystanders hear.

»How loud is it with the Mild2W ILD TromboneTM slides inserted?

Depends on where and if you cut them.  The sound is infinitely variable from glasspacks to straight pipes, depending on the cut.  Assuming you don't cut them, they are LOUD.  You definitely will be able to compete with Harleys.  You won't be sneaking in at 2:00 AM with the 'Bones installed.  Good thing they come out so easy!

»Can I expect more power and/or mileage?

Yes.  You can expect to gain several ponies .  Appears to be around 5-10 % more ponies, and/or 2 mpg - though that depends on your style.  Michael Hart and friends in WI did a comparative Dyno run last fall, with several different configurations.  Interestingly, Alan B's Valk with glasspacks yielded the most power of all tested.

»I have an Interstate.  Can I use the 'Bones?

Yes .  See "...tips..." question above.

» I already have MarkT glasspacks.  Can we retrofit Trombones?

There are a couple issues about adding the Trombones to existing systems.  I tried to design them so they were backwards compatible, but there were limitations.

Option 1)  To get around those limitations, it is easiest to replace the glasspacks.  If you have the version with clamped-in glasspacks (look for a muffler clamp protruding from the back side of the muffler can), it's pretty easy.  You can buy the glasspacks cut and shaped to work with the bones for $30 each, plus the bones, total  $170 including shipping.  Call & I'll give you some tips on removing the old glasspacks.

Option 2)   If you don't have the clamped packs, then here's "The rest of the story" (apologies to Paul Harvey).  I discovered there are variances in manufacturing tolerances at Maremont who makes the glasspacks.  That is, some of their glasspacks have a smaller ID than others, with the same part number, and the 'Bones don't slide in easily.  This happens about a fourth of the time.  Now a die is passed through all glasspack mods delivered since mid-October '99, meaning if you bought the mod without the bones since then the glasspacks are already swaged to take the bones.   I recommend you go to your favorite custom muffler shop, and see if a piece of 1 3/4" exhaust tube will insert 20 inches into the glasspacks before it stops.  If it does then continue with this option.  (If the tube won't fit, then you may be SOL with this set of pipes; the packs are much harder to replace if welded in.  You may be able to grind the high points inside the glasspacks down with a Dremel, a carbide bit and an extension shaft with custom handle.  If you succeed, continue with this option.)

The Trombones attach to the outlet of the glasspack, which needs to have a slot and a hole that matches the locator pin and latch. On previous glasspack mods I cut off the outlet.  So to retrofit them, you need 'bones and outlets.  I will cut the severed outlets I have on hand to work with the Trombones.  After ensuring you have 1.75" clearance in your glasspacks per above, buy the 'Bones and outlets from me, take your bike, the 'Bones and the cut outlets to a local welder and have him reattach them.  Shouldn't take him more than 5 minutes or so per pipe, no need to take the pipes off the bike.